Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Shapley » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:14 am

jamiebk wrote:yep...agree. $1,000,000 of assets free and clear of debt


The problem is, a lot of the 'millionaires' produced over the past couple of decades pointed to their $1,000,000 in assets and ignored the $1,200,000 debt on those assets. The trouble began when the banks started believing them to be millionaires. :curse:
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Shapley » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:39 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote:Oh, and you were right, OK?!


I'll frame this and hang it on the wall. ;)

The rest of the transactions were merely goods transactions, which do not add value


They do to the extent that there is net, unless they sell at a loss. See my above cite.[/quote]

True.

I dont necessarily agree with Haggis that a government dollar is different from a private dollar in terms of spending effect. I think that, once the dollar is in the economy, it is hard to distinguish the source, and I don't think most people care.

Most people distinguish 'tax dollars' from 'investment dollars', because we consider tax dollars to be confiscated in return for questionable beneft. However, the government does provide benefits for the dollars it receives, although the efficiency with which they do so is often called into question. We do like to think in terms of dollars spent in exchange for goods or services as a quid-pro-quo. With tax dollars, this is not always the case. We pay, through taxes, for many goods and services that we may or may not receive directly, and for this reason they are generally looked upon differently by the general public. Some governmental services do add value to the dollar, although I hate to admit it.

We also expect our tax dollars to be returned to the economy. That is, the government collects the taxes and spends the tax money, which recirculates the same as any other dollar, whether as the salary of a government employee, a food stamp, or a military contract, it is still in circulation, and contributes to GDP. We try to distinguish between the 'legitimate' use of tax dollars and the 'illegitimate' use, but that distinction is so blurred as to be pretty meaningless. I believe Haggis point is, we generally like our economic measure to be based on real dollars backed by real goods or services, not the 'full faith and credit of the United States'. In that case, we're not talking so much about the currency as the goods themselves, since all of our paper currency is so backed, even the ones we spend on real goods.

The current level of borrowing by the government cannot be good for the value of the dollar, even though it is presumably a 'necessity' to offset the loss of borrowing by the private sector necessary to keep the economy rolling. I don't know if this is a legitimate trade-off. The drop-off in private borrowing was presumably a necessary correction to a non-sustainable situation, which the governemnt is attempting to sustain. That doesn't seem productive to me. If the government's effort is merely intended to soften the blow and cushion the impact of the correction as it runs its' course, then it can be justified. If, on the other hand, it is designed to sustain the unstustainable until the market can continue to sustain it on its' own, then it is a very bad idea.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:11 pm

I can't understand what got into me--Haggis and I agree on all major points, with some small differences in philosophy here and there; yet I obviously stressed him out so much. I regret that and apologize. This is what happens when you don't think,

I'm surprised that Shapley came to the right conclusion about the multiplier's net aspect. Consider this: Keynes is one of the three biggest thinkers in economics, Bertrand Russell (who appears to have known everyone of note for the first two thirds of the twentieth century) said Keynes was the smartest man he ever met. Yet Keynes was wrong where Shapley was right, and it appears like Shap deduced this spontaneously while posting.

I've never had a class in economics but I do remember reading about this effect some 30 years ago--unfortunately I recalled only the basic principle and not the important details.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 pm

The underlying basis of my comment was the government doesn't create wealth, they just redistribute money they took from taxpayers. If they left that money in our pockets we can invest it, use it as capital investment, etc. to grow it. I can invest it in my company, hire workers who in turn pay taxes and buy goods. That's wealth creation. Remember that the Bush tax cuts (which expire next year) Tax cuts always increase tax revenues

Total government collections, in fact, increased more after President Bush's 2003 tax cuts than they did after President Clinton's 1994 tax hikes.


The government just spends the money.

And, contrary to what some think, the U.S. government does not have a shoe box with all our money in it. Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than it receives from income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations. Therefore, when there is an announcement that the government is going to spend money that's an indicator that it's going to borrow it first.Let me trot out my favorite graph.
Image
This is the amount of money the U.S. Government is borrowing (Federal deficit). Now we are spending more than we can borrow (sell bonds) so we start "borrowing" from ourselves (printing money).The current deficit exceeds $11 Trillion. I saw a bumper sticker that said "Please don't tell Obama what comes after a trillion". It doesn't seem so funny now.

Gold surged to a new record high price of 1,085.07 dollars an ounce Tuesday, a day after an announcement of a massive sale of gold by the International Monetary Fund to India.

Prices in London hit 1,085.07 dollars per troy ounce and New York prices reached 1,084.70 dollars, breaking records set last month.
The latest surge came a day after the International Monetary Fund announced it sold 200 tonnes of gold to India's central bank over a two-week period last month for a total of 6.7 billion dollars to bolster its finances.

The significance of this article is that gold buyers are now governments and not investors. China is expected to buy another 400 tonnes of gold by next year. Gold prices have increased almost $400 an ounce this year and based on that chart I referenced about the effect of money supply, is anticipated to continue going up. The critical point in the price of gold is that a strengthing dollar always causes the price of gold to drop; until this year. Even as the dollar shows signs of strengthing, the price of gold continues to increase.

People are nervous about the reign of the dollar as the world’s primary currency. I don’t think there will be any real attempt to replace it since nothing since the British pound has as much appeal. But the price of gold does reflect that an inflated dollar will buy less.

My gold holding are up 42% since I started buying in March this year.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:03 pm

FWIW, hard assets are always a great inflation hedge - gold, arable land, precious gems. These things have intrinsic value that will survive any social upheaval. Unless they are stolen - which can happen in war or a governmental collapse. They don't produce increasing wealth the way commerce or manufacturing or farming do. I generally regard the category of "investment" as a holding in a commercial enterprise of some sort, in that I expect the invested capital to retain its value and return an annual profit.

I'm not sure what sort of economic principal applies, but it's good to have both investment assets (the commercial enterprise/stock/bonds/funds sort) and hard assets (the gold/silver/diamonds kind). Arable land may be the only real example of both kinds of asset at the same time: it is both an article of intrinsic value and a basis for a continuing commercial enterprise.

Maybe I need to look into a small farm, or at least a shed with a chicken coop...
>^..^<
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:55 pm

I'm a great believer is being prepared so I generally have some cash in my "get out of dodge" kits that I keep in my cars and my home. Any tangible assets, gold coins, etc I would normally keep in a safe deposit box.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:23 am

Financial Times

Gold prices continued to rise on Wednesday extending the all-time highs which followed India’s central bank bought 200 tonnes of the precious metal, swapping dollars for bullion as the country’s finance minister warned the economies of the US and Europe had “collapsed”.
India’s decision to exchange $6.7bn for gold equivalent to 8 per cent of world annual mine production sent the strongest signal yet that Asian countries were moving away from the US currency


This is perhaps they most public sign of a loss in faith in the dollar. Recklessly printing money has consequences
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby jamiebk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:53 am

Haggis@wk wrote:Financial Times

Gold prices continued to rise on Wednesday extending the all-time highs which followed India’s central bank bought 200 tonnes of the precious metal, swapping dollars for bullion as the country’s finance minister warned the economies of the US and Europe had “collapsed”.
India’s decision to exchange $6.7bn for gold equivalent to 8 per cent of world annual mine production sent the strongest signal yet that Asian countries were moving away from the US currency


This is perhaps they most public sign of a loss in faith in the dollar. Recklessly printing money has consequences


Haggis....It's not my money, but I would suggest that what you are also seeing is a gold "bubble" that is driving price to new highs. This too shall pass once things stabilize (and they will). Personally, buying gold at this point in time is like buying stocks at the market high...why would anyone do that? There is more downside risk than upside risk. Your "bet" is contingent upon a financial collapse. While I wish you no financial harm, I certainly hope that your bet is wrong. Gold is volatile...while generally, the long term charts are positive, I would remind you that gold fell almost $300.00/oz during 2008.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:56 pm

jamiebk wrote: Haggis....It's not my money, but I would suggest that what you are also seeing is a gold "bubble" that is driving price to new highs. This too shall pass once things stabilize (and they will). Personally, buying gold at this point in time is like buying stocks at the market high...why would anyone do that? There is more downside risk than upside risk. Your "bet" is contingent upon a financial collapse. While I wish you no financial harm, I certainly hope that your bet is wrong. Gold is volatile...while generally, the long term charts are positive, I would remind you that gold fell almost $300.00/oz during 2008.


While obviously I'm not completely invested in gold or oil commodity stocks I think you are missing the larger point I was trying to make.

Markets around the world are moving away from the dollar and are looking for alternatives to the dollar. China has doubled its reserve of gold in the past six years and other central banks in Asia are looking to purchase the rest of the gold that the IMF wants to sell.

Those central banks fear that their dollar reserves will be eaten away by inflation.

By taking the Federal balance sheet to more than $2.2 trillion from $928 billion in 2008, the Federal Reserve created a situation that should have resulted in an epic inflationary spike to accompany the 137% increase in liabilities. But inflation actually declined from 4% in 2008 to approximately -1.5% this year.

I don’t think that is going to last. Bank that are actually hoarding cash are going to start lending some of that extra money we printed and consumers, which drives 70% of our economy, are going to start buying again.

Inflation is inevitable; the only question will be if it will remain manageable. As you, I hope it will be but it would be foolish to ignore the possibility of higher inflation eating away my savings and investments. You seem to think we’re at a high for the gold markets and maybe we are (I made my investment in Mar). But we’re certainly in a trough of oil prices and sentiment and reality will force the price upward if there is any positive recovery.

We are in historic times; the profligate spending by congress has no precedent in history and no one knows what is going to happen when the realities of that recklessness catches up with it. We are seeing the beginnings of those realities in your home state. Your unions won’t allow the government to make meaningful cuts and your electorate won’t permit many more tax increases. All of that doesn’t even take into account the real time bomb, state pensions.

California will have to either renege on its debt (hitherto unimaginable, now not so much) or cut back on spending. Theoretically, everyone knows the inevitable consequences, bankruptcy. In actuality no one seems to be willing to face up to it. Even I, cynic that I am, can't comprehend a state in bankrupcy but I can comprehend the panic it would engender in the world financial markets.

As I said, historic times without precedent. I’m hanging onto my gold and continue to buy commodity stocks.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Shapley » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:22 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:As I said, historic times without precedent. I’m hanging onto my gold and continue to buy commodity stocks.


It's not without precedent. It's just without precedent in this nation. History is full of Obama's that spent their nation's futures into oblivion.

But, the people were hungry for change...
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:05 pm

Gold, well, maybe come down a bit at the start of next year, then reach new highs in the spring.

Originally Haggis said commodities, but now I see he meant stocks. Different animals.

GDP will maybe creep up to positive territory next spring.

Or so I expect.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:18 pm

shapley wrote:It's not without precedent. It's just without precedent in this nation. History is full of Obama's that spent their nation's futures into oblivion.


The Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe come to mind.


Giant Communist Robot wrote:Gold, well, maybe come down a bit at the start of next year, then reach new highs in the spring.

Originally Haggis said commodities, but now I see he meant stocks. Different animals.

GDP will maybe creep up to positive territory next spring.

Or so I expect.


I guess I failed to make it clear I meant gold and oil shares in the stock market and mutual funds. Actually, the MRHYN has all the oil shares in her IRA, I've taken to referring to her as an oil baroness. :rofl:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:41 am

Hey 9 out of 5 ain't bad.

AP: "WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's economic recovery program saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council, an impressive success story for the stimulus plan. Trouble is, only 508 people work there."
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:13 pm

My gold holding are up 42% since I started buying in March this year.


Nice trade. I mentioned buying SPDR's last July during the dip; they are up about 20% now. Looking for an exit sometime before Jan.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby jamiebk » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:39 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
My gold holding are up 42% since I started buying in March this year.


Nice trade. I mentioned buying SPDR's last July during the dip; they are up about 20% now. Looking for an exit sometime before Jan.


Nice trade indeed. I'd sell 'em and head for a Fiji vacation
Jamie

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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Shapley » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:00 pm

GCR,

Thank you for your kind words regarding my assessment of your Keynesian explanation. I would,
however, like to make a few points:

In defense of Keynes

It may seem odd that I would defend Keynes, but I don't think he was totally wrong, although he
missed one key item. Let's look at GCR's example of earlier.

The government spends a dollar to buy a newspaper from GCR's newsstand. I don't know why
GCR picked a newsstand, but it is useful for this discussion, as it speeds things up. In the old
days, newspaper publishers did not charge newsstands for the papers. The papers sold them and
kept all of the money they made. Newspaper publishers made money selling paper space, and the
distribution was essential to that sale. The newsstands were happy to sell the papers because they
earned almost pure profit. I don't know if this is still the case, something in the back of my mind
tells me that the system changed in the 80s or 90s as newspaper prices began to rise markedly,
but I could be mistaken.

Nonetheless, let us assume that this is still the case. Thus, GCR's overhead consists of the
maintenance cost of his little plywood newsstand with no utilities, the pittance of rent that he
pays the city for that little square of sidewalk it is located on, and the cost of his vendor's license.
We will assume that he makes 91¢ on the sale of a $1.00 paper. He now takes that 91¢ and a
copy of The Daily Track Report to the little shop on the corner and buys a $1.00 candy bar.
The Daily Track Report sells for 10¢, of which GCR makes 9¢. The kid makes 20¢ on a
$1.00 candy bar. Thus far, then we can deduct that the $1.00 spent by the government has
directly produced more than its value - 91¢ on the sale of the paper and 11¢ on the sale of the
candy bar (10¢ of that sale $1.01 transaction came out of GCR's pocket) for a total transaction
value of $1.02.

This is money made directly on the sale. There were other monies made on the transaction (the
invisible hand) such as the manufacturer, warehouser, and distributor of the candy bar. We could
trace the candy bar back to the raw materials required to manufacture it, and add that to the costs
associated with the manufacturing, warehousing, and distributing of it to find the total
transaction value of the candy bar sale. Since we are assuming the government did not routinely
by newspapers from GCR, this purchase theoretically increased the newspaper circulation by 1,
which would equate to a corresponding increase in the value of the paper space they sell. But,
we're talking about direct impact here.

Where Keynes went wrong.

This is all well and good, if the government has the money to give. That is to say, if the
government does not borrow the dollar, it helps the economy by more than a dollar. This is the
same as a dollar from any other source. The problem, as Haggis noted, is that the government
does not have the dollar. It borrows the dollar, putting the transaction $1.00 in the negative
before we even began. Thus, instead of producing $1.02 in value, we've only thus far generated
2¢. We have to move the dollar though many more transactions before we can generate an
additional $1.00 in value for the $1.00 spent, if we ever can. I find it doubtful that we could
move it through enough transactions to generate a full dollar before it is consumed.

The problem with our government is that it is fueled by debt. We spend more than we make in
good times and bad. When there is money flowing in, we increase expenditures because "we can
afford to do so". When the money dries up, we increase expenditures "to help the economy" or
"to help those harmed by the economy". Presumably, we also do this because "we can afford to
do so". Some state and local governments establish "rainy day funds", which allow them to
accumulate a level of surplus funds for a variety of functions. Such a fund could serve to make
the Keynesian model work - having stimulus money on hand to stimulate when a stimulus is
needed. But we don't. The government, and presumably Mr. Keynes, does not distinguish
between a dollar owned and a dollar owed.

Is all borrowing bad?

I've defended borrowing before. The business of lending money to produce value is a legitimate
business, and one on which much of our economy depends. Many businesses would not be in
business if they had to wait until they had acquired the assets free and clear necessary to operate
before opening their doors. The intent is to grow the value of the borrowed dollars at a faster rate
than interest on the loan reduces it.

I put money in the bank, into Certificates of Deposit, and into stock in order for my money to be
lent to persons and businesses that will use it to grow its value. I am rewarded for the use of my
money in the form of interest payments and dividends. It's a nice relationship. I've also pointed
out in the past that the government does provide some valuable and necessary services for the
monies they receive. Sometimes they borrow the money to provide those services, through the
sale of bonds and treasury notes, among other things.

Two types of borrowing.

I've pointed out before that government debt is divided into two types: Public Debt and
Intergovernmental Holdings. Public Debt is debt incurred through the sale of instruments of debt,
such as bonds and treasury-bills. The Constitution gives the government the authority to incur
such debt, and does not specify a time frame for its repayment.

Intergovernmental Holdings are monies the government borrows from itself. Some departments
of the government do not spend all of the monies they are allotted, and they lend the remainder
back to the government. Social Security is the most notable of these. The monies raised for
Social Security are owed to Social Security, and legitimately must be repaid when the time
comes that they are needed. In the meantime, the Social Security programme earns interest on the
surplus funds, which they turn around and lend out the following year.

This is akin to you or me borrowing from our 401(k) or other retirement plan. The money is set
aside for a specific purpose (retirement), but it is our money. We are justified in taking it.
However, if we take money out of our retirement today to buy a new Mercedes, we will have to
repay it if we intend to maintain our lifestyle after retirement. Then again, since it is our money,
we can decide that a new Mercedes today is more important than a retirement income forty years
from now, so we can choose not to repay the debt. We are perfectly justified in relieving
ourselves of debt to ourselves. We merely have to be aware of the consequences of doing so.

The government, also, can decide at some point that it is not in its best interests to repay the
monies it has borrowed from itself. I've posted links, including links to Social Security's own
website, that show that the ‘promise' of Social Security is as empty as the hollow of one's hand.
The government of tomorrow is not bound by the promises of the government of today. If they
decided that there are better things to spend Social Security taxes on than Social Security, they
can cut benefits or abolish the programme altogether, if the cost of repaying the debt becomes
insurmountable. I believe it will at some point in the near future.

The problem today.

The current problem, as Haggis has noted, is that the government has no holdings to borrow
anymore. Until late last year, about half of the total national debt was Intergovernmental
Holdings. All borrowing today is Public Debt, which has to be repaid (unless we choose to
default). If you look at the Treasury's "Debt To The Penny" website, you'll see that nearly all of
the borrowing that has occurred this year has been Public Debt. The Social Security surplus is
gone. We are having to go, hat in hand, to borrow the $1.00 to buy that newspaper. That is not
good.

It's also significant to note how far we've sunk into the mentality of debt. A politician is now
considered a fiscal conservative if they seek to drive us into debt slower than the other
politicians. There is no plan in place to get the United States out of debt. None.

A bit on the value of money.

Money only has value if it is backed by goods or services. Until the ‘70s, our money was backed
by the gold we had tucked away in Fort Knox and elsewhere. Now, our money is backed by the
‘full faith and credit of the U.S. government'. That is to say, it is backed by GDP and our
government's ability to access it. This is why the GDP number is so important. It's also why the
money supply is so important. This is also why it has to be a number that can be quantified. OT
seems to think that I am hypocritical in accepting the government's reported value of GDP while
not accepting other government-generated numbers, such as the CBO's projected cost of the
health-care bill. However, I am satisfied that the bean-counters that count GDP beans can count
reasonably well. I am not satisfied that the bean-estimators that estimate projected future quantity
of beans can do so accurately. They are two different kinds of beans.

If we begin to produce large quantities of monies without increasing the goods or services that
back them, we devalue that money. Apparently, the Treasury thinks it can put lots more money in
circulation, about twice as much as GDP supports, and then withdraw it gradually without the
World's financial markets noticing. I don't think it's working.

Conflation time.

Now it is time to conflate this with my political viewpoints, as I am wont to do. Those of you that
don't like it when I do this, can stop reading now.

We didn't like the Soviet Union very much. It was all well and good when they were serving as a
market for our goods and services, but we thought their military was too big, we were afraid of
their nuclear weapons, we thought they were trying to undermine our system of government, and
we didn't like their habit of overthrowing foreign governments . Ronaldus Maximus determined
that we could beat them financially more easily and less messily than we could defeat them
militarily. Thus he set out to drive them into spending vast sums of money they didn't have to
prop up their failing economic system. It worked. He didn't even try to hide it. Several noted
writers explained the plan as it was unfolding. The Russians either didn't read enough or didn't
care enough to prevent it from happening.

Now, Ronaldus Maximus caught a lot of grief for our own increases in debt during that time.
However, GDP grew at a faster rate than the debt, and we defeated an enemy without going to
war. This earned the President the title of Ronaldus Maximus in my estimation, and began the
Pax Reagana that allowed President Clinton to begin a process of deficit reduction through
military-spending reduction. He also lowered taxes on the rich, but that's another topic.

What has this to do with today's situation? Well, the Chinese don't like us very much. It's all
well and good when we're serving as a market for their goods and services, but they think our
military is too big, they are afraid of our nuclear weapons, they think we are trying to undermine
their system of government, and they don't like our habit of overthrowing foreign governments.
Now, Mr. Hu may or may not be China's Ronaldus Maximus, but I don't doubt for a minute that
they have studied the events of the Cold War and the fall of the Soviet Union. Mr. Geithner went
to China and told them that their investment in the United States was safe, and they laughed at
him. Now, if they do not believe that they are investing in a sound financial system, what other
reason could they have for pumping so much effort into increasing our debt?

During the massive oil price increases that took place from about 2006 until the collapse in 2008,
Iran bragged that the mechanism was in place for the financial collapse of the West. Was this just
hot air being spewed by people noted for spewing hot air, or did they know something?


V/R
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby dai bread » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:21 pm

An interesting post, Shap.

A couple of comments: private enterprise borrows too. Sometimes even for working capital. I believe Keynes got it pretty well right, and I try to work my investments along his lines, which is why I'm buying now.

And for about the fiftieth time, I will say that the search for non-oil fuels in now imperative.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Shapley » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:22 pm

dai bread wrote:private enterprise borrows too. Sometimes even for working capital.


I mentioned that. As I've said, not all borrowing is bad. However, businesses borrow with an eye to growth: They intend that the money earned from the borrowed capital will outpace the interest on the debt. Governments should work the same. Since it seems that our government cannot help but borrow, the least we could ask is that they not borrow faster than GDP can grow to support it.
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:26 pm

FWIW, hard assets are always a great inflation hedge - gold, arable land, precious gems


I'm not so sure about gems. There is no secondary market for them--and cartels keep their prices artificially high. Your real estate is likey worth what similar parcels have sold for, but re-sell a gem and you'll get only a fraction of what you paid.
Thinking is overrated
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Re: Healthy economy equals quiet bulletin board

Postby dai bread » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:55 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
FWIW, hard assets are always a great inflation hedge - gold, arable land, precious gems


I'm not so sure about gems. There is no secondary market for them--and cartels keep their prices artificially high. Your real estate is likey worth what similar parcels have sold for, but re-sell a gem and you'll get only a fraction of what you paid.


Jewellers' mark-ups are legendary. You'll never make money out of gems unless you can get them at wholesale at least, and preferably straight from the mine.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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