Live Music

[Marye]

Despite the horrendous police state that was the G20 (100 hoodlams and vandals terrorize a city -- 900 arrested), my partner and I saw the ballet Onegin. http://ballet.ca/performances/season0910/onegin.php Just glorious.

I love the ballet. Tchaikovsky music... gorgeous.

[Shapley]

It's always nice to see culture thrive and survive in the face of anarchy...

[lliam]

Elgar £20 notes withdrawn



The £20 English banknotes featuring Sir Edward Elgar have been withdrawn by the Bank of England and are no longer accepted in shops.
The Bank of England has been gradually phasing out the Elgar notes since 2007, replacing them with new notes featuring 18th-century economist Adam Smith.
The first Elgar notes, displaying the composer and Worcester Cathedral, where his Enigma Variations were premiered, were issued in June 1999.
Elgar’s removal from the £20 banknote has been called a ‘national disgrace’ by Jeremy Dibble, a music professor at Durham University, since the arts now no longer feature on Bank of England notes. "Dropping Elgar tells us much about the way in which the arts are now viewed in England. Bank notes should applaud the greatest aspects of England and English culture.

[piqaboo]

No longer accepted in shops! That's weird.

[GreatCarouser]

Elgar £20 notes withdrawn



The £20 English banknotes featuring Sir Edward Elgar have been withdrawn by the Bank of England and are no longer accepted in shops.
The Bank of England has been gradually phasing out the Elgar notes since 2007, replacing them with new notes featuring 18th-century economist Adam Smith.
The first Elgar notes, displaying the composer and Worcester Cathedral, where his Enigma Variations were premiered, were issued in June 1999.
Elgar’s removal from the £20 banknote has been called a ‘national disgrace’ by Jeremy Dibble, a music professor at Durham University, since the arts now no longer feature on Bank of England notes. "Dropping Elgar tells us much about the way in which the arts are now viewed in England. Bank notes should applaud the greatest aspects of England and English culture.

What else can one expect from a government that refuses to allow the Holocaust to be taught in schools for fear of offending their new /citizens/taxpayers/owners? Sorry to come on and take a shot, lliam, but that one's been bouncing around in my head since I heard it awhile back. I hope you're doing well and even if Elgar's bill won't 'spend' over there his music continues to rise in value whenever I hear it. Could this be a small step in switching completely to the Euro? Kind of a 'test balloon'?

[dai bread]

How can the British not teach the Holocaust?

I don't know if the Germans teach it in their schools, but I do know that the teenage schoolchildren who come here for a year's holiday (sorry, English lessons) know about it.

[lliam]

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Government backed study has revealed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0teQ3my5e

[lliam]

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Government backed study has revealed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0teQ3my5e

===============================================================================
That's just one of many issues regarding the Muslim community.

This country that I love so dear seems to be revolving around what's best for the Muslims.
Before the london bombings on 7/7/05 we only saw the odd burka about town but since 7/7 everywhere we go we see burka's gallore this tells me they are a very arrogant race of people and we will never mix because they don't want to.

The latest campaign is to 'Ban the Burka'.
------------------------------------------------

I'm supposed to be keeping an eye on my blood pressure. But practically every time I go out these days, I am presented with the menacing spectacle of women being dressed head-to-toe in dreary black burkas, their faces covered apart from slits for the eyes. Today there was a bunch of about six of them walking down the road. This sends the old BP through the roof!

This horrible garment is not a symbol of multiculturalism. It is the product of the most extreme fundamentalist form of Islam and a statement of rejection of any form of integration with British society.

We have sleep-walked into the situation in which radical Islam is sweeping through our inner cities and imposing these garments on women.

President Sarkozy of France has expressed his concern about the wearing of burkas. He has said that they are not welcome in France and they deprive women of identity. He has set up a commission to look into restricting its use.

I dare say it will be a cold day in hell before any of our craven, 'politically correct' leaders in the UK take such a step, for fear of 'offending' Muslims. But perhaps we can hope that David Cameron will do something about it.
Well here's a newsflash for the politicians: there is nothing in the Koran which requires women to wear these things. It is an innovation of Wahhabism, the most fanatical and extreme form of Islam, which started in Saudi Arabia and has now spread to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and to Pakistani communities in the UK.

Reasons for banning the Burka:

* Security. It can be used by terrorists of both sexes to conceal their identity; indeed, one of the 21st July bombers disguised himself in a burka in an attempt to escape.

* Women's Rights. They are an expression of extreme mysogyny, turning women into items of property who may not be seen by anybody except male relatives. They deprive women of all individuality. They restrict peripheral vision, and in extreme cases, women are required to peer out through a gauze which even hides their eyes. (I once saw two women in garments with no discernible eye openings at all.)

* Health. Women wearing these garments suffer from vitamin D deficiency due to lack of sunlight, and as a result, rickets have re-appeared in the UK, among the unfortunate children of these women.

* Communication. Facial expression is far older than language in imparting information. Those who cover their faces are cutting themselves off from communication with the outside world. The hard of hearing use lip-reading to assist them understand what is being spoken; needless to say, this is not possible if the speaker is wearing a facial covering.

* Identity. It is impossible to know who is under the burka or to distinguish one unfortunate woman wearing these, from another. Suppose one is caught shoplifting. The store CCTV shows a figure in a burka stealing something. How can it be proven that this is the accused and not somebody else. A woman in a burka goes into an exam. How can we know this is the genuine person and not a friend taking the exam on her behalf? And so it goes on.

I think the press should take up the campaign to have these facial coverings outlawed. Only this will jolt our useless and complacent politicians into action.

[analog]

i have a hard time keeping my prejudices in check when i see those things. It is natural to recoil from what looks to one grotesque.
You did a good job of laying out logical arguments, i doubt i could equal it.

A culture that says a woman can be stoned to death for evoking lust in a man is flawed. That kind of cruelty is a Manson-esque psychosis. The lust is my sin not hers.

It is an innovation of Wahhabism, the most fanatical and extreme form of Islam, which started in Saudi Arabia and has now spread to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and to Pakistani communities in the UK.

Fanaticism is a mental illness and it can be induced.
Most religions have outgrown it.
Christians no longer burn women at the stake and our Mormon brethren gave up polygamy. Our lunatic fringe is small and shrinking.
Islam needs to recognize and drive out its nutcases.

a.

[Schmeelkie]

Lliam, Analog - I see your points, but I still can't agree with the law. It's assuming if you outlaw the burka, those so very intolerant men will let their women go out without it. Much more likely if a law like that passed, these women would now be confined to their homes - cutting off what little freedom they have. So I don't think that's the solution. I'd hope that as these folks live in the UK (or any other Western society), their strict rules will lessen under pressure from younger generations.
Even if not, other than insulting your sensibilities and forcefully walling these women off from society (and the criminal angle), how does this really hurt the UK as a whole? We aren't forcing the Amish to dress like us...maybe because they're less likely to be accused of stomping on women's rights, but still.... Again, I don't have a good solution and do see it as a problem, but I doubt outlawing burkas is the answer.

[analog]

I'd hope that as these folks live in the UK (or any other Western society), their strict rules will lessen under pressure from younger generations.

that's the best solution and you'd think the wise elders would nudge things along....

i always seem to not quite make my thoughts clear.. by my last line ... Islam needs to clean up its act before some government starts doing it for them.

Yesterday on Dianne Rheem a muslim caller phoned in about how the move to ban burkas was contrary to Western philosophers' concepts of individual freedom, he quoted several French ones from the "enlightenment"..... he was simply trying to turn the west's own words into a slippery slope argument. Never a word though about mens' individual responsibility for their own prurience.

If you saw King Abdullah on Charlie Rose speaking about the university he wants to build, with Western style curriculum and a mixed gender campus, it sounds like he wants to nudge his country's youth in a, shall we say 'enlightened?', direction.

There is hope.

a.

[GreatCarouser]

Basically, it would take 'Martial law' over here for any of these changes to take effect, and rightfully so. The question is, when to 'impose it. I'd go on but this should really be on another thread. there's plenty to talk about, from these issues to the huge mosque that folks want to build about 600 ft from ground Zero in Manhattan, to the canard the government has been feeding us about how it's really just a small number of Moslems who favor these acts of terror. If that's true what about this article?

[lliam]

We aren't forcing the Amish to dress like us...maybe because they're less likely to be accused of stomping on women's rights, but still.... Again, I don't have a good solution and do see it as a problem, but I doubt outlawing burkas is the answer.

[Belgium became the first country in Europe to ban (The Burka) clothing that obscures the identity of the wearer in public places].

Schmeekie, there's no comparison between the 'Amish' and ‘Muslims’ If I had an opportunity to live amongst the 'Amish' for an agreed amount of time to learn their culture I would jump at the chance, on the other hand no way would I ever think of living amongst the 'Muslims'.

Before the 7/7 bombings there didn’t seem to be many Muslim women wearing the burka just the odd one now and then. But, after 7/7 it seemed that suddenly the burka was in fashion or was this some kind of message from the extremists that Islam rules OK? And now we have that hate preacher Chaudry telling is crowd we can expect more bombings. What's wrong with my Countrymen and Women what more do they need to awaken there emotions and Vote for a party who love this England of ours and will reverse the immigration policies of these useless past governments who have sold us down the river.


Has GreatCarouser said: I'd go on but this should really be on another thread. So, I'm Transferring to 'The war on terrorism thread' ...... 'The Debate Team'

[dai bread]

Lliam, Analog - I see your points, but I still can't agree with the law. It's assuming if you outlaw the burka, those so very intolerant men will let their women go out without it. Much more likely if a law like that passed, these women would now be confined to their homes - cutting off what little freedom they have.

This is an absolute certainty. Do you have people going to the homes of Muslim immigrants to teach English to the women, or to look after welfare matters or such? Talk to them about women in purdah, and the chaperones who hover to make sure the visitor doesn't say anything to encourage the woman's freedom.

[Shapley]

I was able to see the St. Louis Symphony perform at Powell Hall yesterday. Joshua Bell was in town to perfrom Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D Major, with David Roberton at the baton. Both did a fantastic job, in my opinion.

The concert opened with Symphony No. 1 by Kalinnikov. I was not familiar with this piece, but it was performed well. I partucularly enjoyed the second movement.

After the intermission, the concert resumed with Prokofiev's Lietenant Kije Suite. I thought the orchestra did an excellent job with this piece, one of my favourites.

As usual, our St. Louis audience had trouble with applause. They applauded furiously after the first movement of the Kalinnikov Symphony, which Prompted Robertson to acknowledge the applause, and advise us that there would now be three encores. Apparently, he is accustomed to this.

I mentioned a while back that the audience sat in silence after the first movement of Shore's Lord of the RIngs Symphony, which led to an awkward situation, given that conductor apparently refused to continue until the applause had been generated. We had to be more or less prompted to applaud. Of course, it didn't help then that none were familiar with the work as a 'symphony', and that the movment ended aburptly, leading the audience to wonder whether or the movement was over or they were experiencing technical difficulty. After that, the audience was on its guard, applauding at every lull in the music, which was equally awkward.

I bring that back up because it seems that, once so bitten, the audience remains forever applause-disfunctional. When Joshua Bell completed the first movement of the Tchaikovsky concerto, the audience stood to give him a standing ovation. Thus, once again, Mr. Robertson had to advise us that there would now be two encores. I did read, however, that applause after the first movement of that piece is not unexpected. A well-deserved ovation was given, appropriately, at the end of the work, but I thought the earlier attempt had dampened the impact of it.

We're such uncultured barbarians here in the Midwest. Maybe the Orchestra needs to add one of the 'Applause' signs such as they have on television game shows...

[jamiebk]

I was able to see the St. Louis Symphony perform at Powell Hall yesterday. Joshua Bell was in town to perfrom Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D Major, with David Roberton at the baton. Both did a fantastic job, in my opinion.

The concert opened with Symphony No. 1 by Kalinnikov. I was not familiar with this piece, but it was performed well. I partucularly enjoyed the second movement.

After the intermission, the concert resumed with Prokofiev's Lietenant Kije Suite. I thought the orchestra did an excellent job with this piece, one of my favourites.

As usual, our St. Louis audience had trouble with applause. They applauded furiously after the first movement of the Kalinnikov Symphony, which Prompted Robertson to acknowledge the applause, and advise us that there would now be three encores. Apparently, he is accustomed to this.

I mentioned a while back that the audience sat in silence after the first movement of Shore's Lord of the RIngs Symphony, which led to an awkward situation, given that conductor apparently refused to continue until the applause had been generated. We had to be more or less prompted to applaud. Of course, it didn't help then that none were familiar with the work as a 'symphony', and that the movment ended aburptly, leading the audience to wonder whether or the movement was over or they were experiencing technical difficulty. After that, the audience was on its guard, applauding at every lull in the music, which was equally awkward.

I bring that back up because it seems that, once so bitten, the audience remains forever applause-disfunctional. When Joshua Bell completed the first movement of the Tchaikovsky concerto, the audience stood to give him a standing ovation. Thus, once again, Mr. Robertson had to advise us that there would now be two encores. I did read, however, that applause after the first movement of that piece is not unexpected. A well-deserved ovation was given, appropriately, at the end of the work, but I thought the earlier attempt had dampened the impact of it.

We're such uncultured barbarians here in the Midwest. Maybe the Orchestra needs to add one of the 'Applause' signs such as they have on television game shows...

I share your pain Shap...and frankly it is one thing that makes attending live concerts akward at best. Conductors have to realize that for many in attendance, this may be their first encounter with a specifc piece or even a concert. I think the conductor should be charged with exhibiting a universal gesture indicating "hey...it's over, so applause is welcome now". Once in a while, a musician's performance is so spectacular that some ovation from the audience....I think that's fine too and I would guess that such a gesture would mean a lot to the musician.

(PS...you were lucky to hear such an esteemed musician play the Tchaikovsky...I heard it live once myself and was in awe over what it took to play it.)

[Shapley]

(PS...you were lucky to hear such an esteemed musician play the Tchaikovsky...I heard it live once myself and was in awe over what it took to play it.)

It is amazing to be able to watch them perform. Not being a musician myself, I am in admiration as to how they are able to produce such music flawlessly. I did not see any sheet music in front of Mr. Bell, nor could I see how it would have been much help, as his animated playing would have made it difficult to hold his focus on the page.

Our local symphony performed Vivaldi's Four Seasons last Spring, and I was amazed at the soloist ability to keep her place on the page as she wove back and forth, moved about, and even turned around, without losing her spot. She did have the sheet music in front of her, and I observed her turning pages between solos. I saw no inditication that Mr. Bell had any sheet music at all.

[jamiebk]

(PS...you were lucky to hear such an esteemed musician play the Tchaikovsky...I heard it live once myself and was in awe over what it took to play it.)

It is amazing to be able to watch them perform. Not being a musician myself, I am in admiration as to how they are able to produce such music flawlessly. I did not see any sheet music in front of Mr. Bell, nor could I see how it would have been much help, as his animated playing would have made it difficult to hold his focus on the page.

Our local symphony performed Vivaldi's Four Seasons last Spring, and I was amazed at the soloist ability to keep her place on the page as she wove back and forth, moved about, and even turned around, without losing her spot. She did have the sheet music in front of her, and I observed her turning pages between solos. I saw no inditication that Mr. Bell had any sheet music at all.

Most of the "pros" don't use sheet music. reading the music often inhibits them...it's all in their heads (and hearts)

[Shapley]

Most of the "pros" don't use sheet music. reading the music often inhibits them...it's all in their heads (and hearts)

No doubt. One more reason I could never be a musician: my memory ain't that good.

When I had the pleasure of seeing the Eroica Trio perform here in Cape Girardeau, Sara Sant'Ambrogio had her eyes closed through most of her performance. She appeared to be totally engrossed in the playing of the music, and sight was merely a distraction. I was impressed. (Erika Nickrenz and Susie Park, the other members of the trio, kept their eyes open throughout, near as I could tell.) Sara's father was principle Cellist for the St. Louis Symphony Orchstra for 35+ years, by the way.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

OK, first caveat, I'm not a good musician. I can read a score, in a fashion, and I can sing a tune. Pick out a tune on a piano. Still......

When you're performing, you're not remembering the music. The score got learned, and rehearsed, and the score is the notation of the music but it is not the music. The performer makes the music, and that music is unique to that performance.

When a performance is going right, the music just happens. It is exhilerating, and a joy, and it just happens, and it leaves you utterly happy and exhausted.